[00:00:05] Russell Evans: This is Contributors, a show exploring how today's Canadian business leaders are building a better future for Canada. So Jade, we've made it to the end of Contributors Season two. How are you feeling? 

[00:00:18] Jade Towle: I'm feeling really great. I think we had many insightful guests on the show. We covered many different industries and we also hit a 100,000 downloads this season. Woo! How are you feeling, Russell? 

[00:00:35] Russell Evans: I'm feeling really good about it. It's I thought it was a really fun and interesting season. We had some phenomenal guests and you know, I'm just always grateful that we have the listeners that we do, that we have people who are interested in hearing from the fantastic Canadian leaders that we have on the show, and I'm excited to be able to do more of it next season. 

[00:01:00] Jade Towle: Definitely. And today for our listeners, we're going to be reflecting on the season. We did this last year and it was very well received. So we're we're doing it again. Lessons from the leaders part two. We're going to be unpacking the top themes we heard from our leaders on Contributors. So Russell, break it down for us. 

[00:01:22] Russell Evans: Sure. So for me, I think there were three themes that came through loud and clear over season two. Number one is the idea that you can't adapt as a business leader if you're not listening to your customers. Number two was the idea of staying focused on your organizational purpose and then using that purpose as your business's North Star. And then number three was the idea of making sure that you're leading with a people first business plan. So to tell you a little bit more about all three, I think the first one is idea of you can't adapt if you're not listening. This is really about remaining flexible. It's about innovating, but it's also making sure that the the needs of your customers and your customer experience is what's driving that adaptation. It's what's driving your innovation. Otherwise, you might find yourself following trends, or you might you're find yourself failing to adapt, failing to evolve at all. Number two, this idea of purpose being your North Star. This is really this is not to dismiss profitability. Profitability is enormously important. And even organizations that are not for profit still need to think about the money that's coming in and the money that's going out. But what this is really to say is profitability is important, but you need to take a step back and say, why am I actually doing this? What is the problem I'm trying to solve? And actually an interesting example of this is Contributors itself. So when we originally decided at CAAT Pension Plan that we wanted to do a podcast, one of the first things we were thinking about is to do a podcast that was actually focused on pensions obviously, that's our business. And then we took a step back and we decided, well instead of making the show about pensions, what if we make it about CAAT's purpose. And the reason that we offer the pensions we do, which is a desire to address the retirement savings gap and a desire to make Canada stronger. And when we did that, that really opened up so many possibilities for us because that allowed us to create a podcast that became a platform for other Canadian organizations, other Canadian CEOs to share their vision and to share the work that they're doing to make Canada stronger. And then finally that third theme, the idea of leading with a people first business plan. This is really around what is it that organizations need to do to think about investing in their own people, and that really you have to invest in your own people. You have to invest in your own infrastructure before you're able to help your customers. And it's really it reminds me a little bit of when you're on the airplane and you give you the safety spiel and they say, you got to put on your own mask before you help someone else. And that's really what this is is, you need to invest in your own people. You need to make sure that you are having that focus on an engaged, excited, driven workforce before you're able to reach out and do anything for your customers. So those are our three themes for the season. 

[00:04:32] Jade Towle: Lots for us to unpack here. Let's start with our first theme, Russell. You said you can't adapt if you don't listen. I really love that. When we do think about this idea of adapting, the first episode that immediately comes to mind is your conversation with Brett Belchetz. So he is the CEO and co-founder of Maple, which is an online health care platform. A perfect example because he really had to adapt to these changing market dynamics in order to really meet customers where they are today. 

[00:05:07] Brett Belchetz: I'll be honest with you, when we started the company, the B2B model was something that we didn't even think of. We started the company and I was a physician, as I mentioned by training and as a person who is not coming from working in business and had never started a company before. I was as I said, very inspired by companies like Uber, and I got really excited looking at models like Airbnb. And all of these are our digital consumer brands. And so the thing that was the natural place to go, starting a company was the direct consumer type of offering. So we started Maple, we started the company in 2015, and we launched our first patients in 2016, and it launched yearly as a direct consumer offering. And only about a year later, after a whole bunch of people who had used Maple and had great experiences were were recommending us onwards, and who had we had sold lots of problems for only when those people started to ask us what our corporate plans were like, because they liked the offerings so much, they wanted to buy it for their company. And only at that point did we realize, wait a second, we kind of missed the [00:06:11]boat here [0.3s] on something because people love this. People want to be able to buy it in a group way, for a group of people to have access to it, and we don't have any corporate offering. We don't have a B2B offering. So I think the market spoke to us and the market said to us, this is something that people really really want to have. And so very quickly, in the year 2017, we built our B2B offering and started offering these corporate plans to people that were asking for them. And eventually we figured out how to have a sales team and actually proactively start making the market aware of it. And the rest is history to the point where now about 70 percent of our business is B2B. 

[00:06:46] Russell Evans: So for me, this is a perfect example of the power of listening. When I first became aware of Maple as a health care provider, I understood it as a direct to consumer play. I even went ahead and got an account because I thought, well, if I'm going to interview Brett, I need to be able to experience the app. I need to have some knowledge of what's going on from from the customer perspective. But in chatting with him to learn that 70 percent of the business is B2B. That completely changed my understanding of the business that Maple is in, and it really helps me understand how they've grown so exponentially as well. And I can only imagine inside the organization how much they've had to pivot the way that they work as they've kind of gone from a the end user is the only customer we need to think about to. We got to think about the end user. But we also need to think about the intermediaries that we're accessing those customers through. Frankly, I almost want to talk to Brett again just to dig into that as a business challenge. But for Brett, that's a business opportunity that's growth that they would not have had if they didn't first listen to the customer and respond. 

[00:08:02] Jade Towle: Yeah, I think that's a really great point. And really, really good takeaway for other leaders because if we look across, you know, so many different industries, this idea or even this desire to want to pivot from B2C to B2B is fairly prevalent and it can seem daunting. But if you listen to Brett's episode and and take some of his advice, it is something that can be achieved. And really, as you said, he starts with going back to the basics and listening to what the market actually wants and will respond to. So on this topic, I also think about Ross Wainwright. He was Alida's CEO and we had him on the show for season two. So Alida is a community centered experience research platform. And what I loved about what Ross said, is that at the time he was CEO, he led innovation by prioritizing feedback from his customers. So today, Alida specifically leads the team with this belief that the best decisions are those made with customers and clients and not for them. 

[00:09:16] Ross Wainwright: This really touches on this concept of empathy. If we put the customer in the heart of how we want to run our business and really listen to them, good things will happen. If you listen, they will tell you. Similarly, I think if you really embrace and provide empathy through the the the challenges that our employee basis has gone through for the last couple of years, your employees will be more engaged and happy. They'll be inspired and they in turn will take better care of your customer. I think tech companies need more empathy. I think the business world and and the communities we live in need more empathy. 

[00:09:56] Russell Evans: So I love to have the opportunity to chat with Ross. Full disclosure, before we ever met with the Alida team for Contributors, we were talking about finding a way to incorporate Alida as a business tool at CAAT. But really, it's the conversation with Ross that pushed us over the edge and said, yeah we need to do this. And I think one of the reasons that we felt so strongly about that is exactly what Jade just articulated is the idea of making decisions with customers and not on their behalf without their input. And this is something we've already started to build into the way we do business at CAAT. As one example, we have something called the Plan Ambassadors program, and this is really a program where our members, if they choose to go put their hands up and say, "Hey, I love what CAAT's doing in terms of making lifetime retirement income available to more Canadians." And I want to help you do that. I want to help spread the word about how valuable defined benefit pensions are and how affordable they can be. So we've got these people who are put their hands up and said, "Yeah, I want to help CAAT spread the word." But we want to make sure that as we shape the Plan Ambassadors program, we're doing it in a way that works for Plan ambassadors, and we're giving them the support and tools they need to really help us spread the word. So we've done a couple of surveys with that group, and the feedback we've received from them has been invaluable. So for me, that's just one more way to say, thank you, Alida. And to say, the value that you get from listening to your customers is incredible. 

[00:11:37] Jade Towle: That's such a great point, Russell. And I think the more touch points, the better. So if you do have a tool that you can leverage to get on the fly feedback, it's so important rather than just leaning on one annual survey. I think the consistency and gauging and garnering that feedback is really important too. Moving to our second theme, and I absolutely love how you've articulated this, Russell. Purpose is your North Star. What exactly does that mean? 

[00:12:11] Russell Evans: I think what I heard from the business leaders that we interviewed this season on Contributors is that profit is important, but profit alone is not enough. That you need something outside of profit to give your business meaning, to inspire your people. But also it's really your purpose that is going to generate innovation and help you better satisfy the needs of your customers because it's also your purpose that's going to give you that those shared values. So not just shared values within your organization but also shared values between the people who work there and the customers you're serving. And I think one of the places that we saw that kind of shared value system is when we talk to Vancity. 

[00:13:01] Jade Towle: Absolutely. So Christine Bergeron, who as former CEO of Vancity, talked about this idea of a triple bottom line business model, where she emphasized this idea of focusing and really leaning in on people, planet and profit. 

[00:13:20] Christine Bergeron: At the end of the day, you know, most most businesses have a single bottom line, which is, you know, profit and triple bottom line really then looks at, you know, people, planet and profit. And how do you incorporate all of those in your decision making. If you really mean it, you can set impact based business targets alongside your profit targets and create some plans on how you reach them. And you can start small with that and grow that along the way to, you know, demonstrate again if it is a public company, demonstrate to your shareholders the value of having those. My experience is that if you do those things, if you change some of the time frame, you think of your levers. You put your customers, so for us, it's our members, you know, at the center and you start thinking about targets. You can start to move the dial. Sounds so simple, but really we just respond to the needs that we see in community. I find these days, if you say innovation and people think technology, but it's about the innovation also around systems and that's where we've been spending a lot of time lately. How do we how do we think differently about these systems that we're all part of that, you know, as we've talked about like aren't really working for everybody. 

[00:14:33] Jade Towle: So Russell, people, planet, prophet. That sounds big. Very daunting. What did you take away from what Christine had shared? Because I think there's ways that any leader or any organization can really adopt to this idea of a triple bottom line business model. 

[00:14:51] Russell Evans: Yeah. Or so my, my take away was that actually a lot of Canadian businesses and Canadian business leaders are looking at these three factors as interconnected. So you don't necessarily focus on just profit or just people or just, you know, environmental factors. You tend to look at these things in a more integrated fashion. That said, I think the insight from Vancity was you need to make sure you're measuring all three. If you don't have KPIs and success indicators on all three, you might be focusing on one to the detriment of another. So I think that was my takeaway is that your approach needs to be integrated, but your system of measurement should be independent. 

[00:15:42] Jade Towle: And it does remind me of Colin Osborne. So Colin is CEO of Samuel & Son, and he really prioritizes this idea of sustainability through and through. His organization focuses on green manufacturing. But he also makes a really good point that while this idea of sustainability and looking to the future is good for Canada. It's also what brings him amazing talent. 

[00:16:14] Colin Osborne: Kind of the what I'll call the the intangible, which is around employee engagement. But I would tell you this, I think every employee, regardless of generation, wants to work for a company that they feel is committed to communities and environments. And, you know, sure, we have to make money because we got to survive, but they want to feel that they're part of a company that takes corporate citizenship seriously. So I think as we do these things and we communicate them internally, and we publish our ESG and sustainability and our DEI initiatives, one of the things that's important to me is that people want to work here, and they want to work for this company, right? 

[00:16:47] Jade Towle: As we wrap up this second theme of purpose being the North Star, we have to talk about our last episode that just launched on Contributors. It was titled Canada's Greatest Comeback and we really focused in on defined benefit pension plans. So Russell, you and I know the importance of pension plans in Canada. And the Former Governor of the Bank of Canada, Steven Poloz, joined us on the episode and shares very similar sentiment. He actually talks about the gap that exists today in Canadians readiness for the future and for retirement. But where the opportunity lies, which is really exciting, is that market conditions are aligning so that this gap finally has the opportunity to get filled. 

[00:17:40] Stephen Poloz: And what I think happened is that the the market power in that space between employers and employees shifted towards employers. And, you know, real wages have been, you know, fairly moderate throughout that time, ever since. That's one reason labor unions have kind of, you know, faded away. Not totally, but of course, diminished coverage. So what we have then is a whole generation, more than a generation essentially, almost 50 years of people where the there was lots of workers around and and so but what I think is next is our baby boomers like myself are retiring. We have a gigantic retirement here in Canada, like 15,000 people are retiring every month. And just just picture that, you know, all those all that human capital heading for the door. And so what happens is over the next ten years, we're going to have more fallout and we're shifting to a relative shortage of workers. I'm talking much more profound than the shortage we experienced in the wake of the pandemic. Because a very narrow kind of set of workers, but a much more widespread shortage. So I think what's going to happen then is the power is shifting back from the employer to the employee. And we're seeing early signs of companies being on the leading edge of that, for example, Walmart or Amazon saying, you know, we're going to pay higher than the minimum wage for our starting workers because we don't think the minimum wage is enough. That's that kind of thing. Or being flexible around work from home. I think employees are really in the driver's seat on this issue, and a lot of firms would rather they just come back five days a week. It's just easier and and they think more productive. It's all changing and I think it'll change a lot more. So what I think then is happening is that our employees are going to be in position to more, to demand more, more like they were in the 1950s and 1960s. 

[00:19:43] Russell Evans: So I think for me, what I took away from Stephen's remarks was really a reminder of how lucky we are at CAAT, because we are here providing lifetime retirement income and providing something that ultimately is going to strengthen the Canadian workforce. It's going to strengthen Canadian households, but it's also good for business. We're not doing this on the backs of Canadian businesses. We are doing this in a way that actually strengthen those businesses. That's going to help them win the marathon for talent, that's going to help them retain and attract the very best people. And ultimately, this is one of those rare cases where you've got a win, win, win, a win for Canadian employers, a win for Canadian households and a win for our country overall. So for me, hearing Stephen talk about this just made me feel, man, we are so lucky that we get to work here and be a part of this. 

[00:20:43] Jade Towle: We have a lot to be grateful for, that's for sure. And also, that is a very great segue into our final theme. When, when when a lot of this happens with putting people first as pension plan does, and as other employers who prioritize employee well-being. So if we think of this theme of leading with a people first business plan. What does that mean to you, Russell? 

[00:21:14] Russell Evans: So I think to me that means as a business, your people, your employees are your greatest asset. And I don't mean that literally because I know literally employees are not an asset. That's not where they go on the balance sheet. And actually, this is something I talked to Pamela Steer about from CPA Canada. I said maybe they should actually be an asset on the business on the balance sheet. That's something that like we've ever talked about. And she gave me some, some good reasons why that can't happen. But she agreed that, you know, from a directional sense, there needs to be a way for Canadian employers to be reminded just how valuable human talent is to the sustainability of those businesses. And to me, that's what this theme is about. It's about unlocking the potential of your human talent. 

[00:22:05] Jade Towle: Definitely. And if we reflect on some of the episodes and leaders we've had on this show, one of the first to to come to mind is Anthony Viel, CEO of Deloitte Canada, because Anthony talked a lot about the skills gap that exists in Canada. 

[00:22:25] Anthony Viel: Every Canadian organization, corporate, or other public agency or otherwise doesn't have enough talent. And if you sat me down for a cup of coffee tomorrow, and this is what I do every day, I say at least to call it a day. They would sort of say this is the number one issue for them. And I say back to them. Be prepared that be in this state for five to 10 years. And I say five to 10 years. 10 being on the outside for the really specific digital resources, the specific cyber machine learning artificial intelligence. Those niche resources and there I say, even some of the traditional resources like public accounting. And now again, we that cannot afford as Canadians to sort of press pause for 10 years and wait for the storm to past. 10 years is a lot of time, is a long time. If Peter Diamandis was on the go here, those of you don't know familiar who he is, he's futurist and entrepreneur. He'd tell you that a convergence of exponential technology is sort of, he contends that is going to be 100 years of disruption in the next 10. So imagine as a corporate or as an organization, if you don't have enough talent for the next 10, you could be 100 years behind. So that's the good news Russell, three the way we're going about it is, you know, trying to tap into is under a underemployed Canadians. And there's a lot unemployed Canadians and trying to give, you know, the reskilling and the retooling in a systematic way through migrate venturing through partnering with education institution to expedite and speed up, you know, that the skills for training, if you will, and augmenting that with on a job, if you will to try and, you know, shorten that curve. 

[00:24:19] Russell Evans: So the conversation with AV was so interesting. And I think one of the things there were a lot of takeaways that I had, but one of them was the idea of because we have such a tight labor market and we have, there's a couple of different buckets you have to play with, which is I think number one is, highly skilled immigrants. So people that you can actually bring to Canada to fill the jobs that you need. Your second group are the people that work for you today. And maybe they have the skills that you want, maybe they require from some upskilling. But that's really that is the group that I think many of the business leaders we've, we've spoken to say that's the one you need to focus on. He also brought forward a third group, which was there may be other workers in Canada that don't have the skills that you need, but they are available for work. And with a little bit of assistance, they might be exactly who you're looking for. So he talked about that and I think that's so inspiring. So for me that really harkened back to when we talked to Anne Sado in season one of Contributors about the roles the the role played by Ontario colleges. So colleges can be that they can help fill that gap that AV was talking about. And they can be a place that we find underutilized workers, provide them with the skills that they need, and then put them to work helping drive our Canadian economy. 

[00:25:53] Jade Towle: Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, if we're talking about this skills gap, there's definitely a talent gap that exists too. And this goes back to your point earlier about the marathon for talent, Russell, and how fitting we had an episode titled just that Marathon for Talent, which was focused on how to attract and retain talent through a long term lens. This is something that our CEO, Derek Dobson, often speaks to because it's not a race anymore. Building talent, retaining talent is definitely something businesses and organizations need to consider for the long term. So we had Derek and also Dr. Susan Black, who is CEO of The Conference Board of Canada, on the show to talk about just that. 

[00:26:46] Dr. Susan Black: The thing we care most often. And I hear it in my individual meetings with leaders, and we heard it in our C-suite survey this year that attracting and retaining talent is the number one internal challenged companies are facing right now. The war for talent has been going on for many years, but with the pandemic, with the structural changes in the economy, people are really struggling to find the right set of skills in the roles that they need to have filled. So there's definitely a tight labor market and it's a great concern. 

[00:27:19] Derek Dobson: Talent is actually at the top of the agenda. This is this is new. So just having it on the agenda is surprising, but that it's a top of the agenda. So what I'm hearing right now is is is organizations across different industries, it's impacting their ability to grow. So it's actually impacting the bottom line. It's impacting their plans, business plans on a go forward basis. And secondarily, I think they're also very concerned that that the departures that they've been seeing or the lack of ability to attract talent for growth, it's fueling burnout. So now so the adjustments that they're making I'm seeing very large stay bonuses. I'm seeing very large pay increases. For example in one industry the professional services I'm seeing pay increases 30 to 40 percent. So so companies are feeling it and we're seeing what the reactions are to it. And they're quite significant. 

[00:28:13] Russell Evans: I would say over the last year, this is the episode that I've received the most number of questions about. This was our top rated episode up until our more recent defined benefit episode and I think the reason for that is this is something that Canadian leaders are acutely aware of. Everybody is living the kind of the shortage for talent, whatever you want to call it, the war for talent. And people were interested in hearing insights from our CEO, Derek Dobson, as well as Dr. Susan Black. And I got to tell you, from my perspective, they're both just absolutely brilliant. I felt like I was sitting there as, you know, just a regular guy hearing these amazing insights from these two people that almost live in the future. They almost have the insights of 2024, but also this vision of where we're going to be in, you know, 2040. So for me that with that was invaluable. And I think my key takeaway was you're not going to create a talent strategy. Put that in place and then forget about it. What you really need to realize is that your talent strategy needs to be fluid. It needs to be something that you continue to prioritize year after year and continue to reevaluate and say, where are we on this talent strategy? What needs to change? What's working and where is the, you know, what talent do we need today? But also what talent are we going to need in the years to come? And what's our plan to find that talent? 

[00:29:58] Jade Towle: Very well said. And to your point, you know, this was one of our first episodes in season two, and the concept of Marathon for Talent is still as prevalent as ever. And I know Derek hears from employers every day that this is still their biggest struggle. And so finding those opportunities to to solve for this long term strategy is really important. We uncovered three very important themes, three very important lessons that we've heard from all of our season two guest leaders. One is you can't adapt if you don't listen. The second is purpose is always going to be your North Star. And the third is this idea of leading with a people first business plan. Now, before we end the episode, Russell, I wanted to bring it back to our listeners favorite segment, which is the Secret Sauce question. 

[00:31:02] Russell Evans: Love the Secret Sauce. 

[00:31:04] Jade Towle: Love it. 

[00:31:04] Russell Evans: So fun. 

[00:31:05] Jade Towle: Our listeners, our listeners loved it too. We've received so much great feedback about this, and this is really where Russell goes deep. He uncovers what makes a leader a leader, and it gives them an opportunity to speak about how they came to be that way, and why they approach leadership in the style that they do. What I really loved about season two is that many of our guests kept this idea fairly simple. Listen to your people's needs. 

[00:31:34] Russell Evans: I think for me, what was interesting about season two is that leaders knew this question was coming. So we had a couple of people in season two who actually said, "Hey, when are you going to ask me about my Secret Sauce?" One of the best ones was Pamela Steer, CEO of CPA Canada. So she came prepared and she said, "I want to tell you about my secret sauce, which is the three C's."

[00:32:00] Pamela Steer: I was preparing a talk that I was giving to a group of executive women like a global group, and and thinking about the importance of leadership. And clearly, competence matters. Technical expertise matters. Like that's not in question at that level. So what distinguishes leadership from that technology technocrat kind of capability. And the three C's are courage, communications and common sense. I kind of joke a lot that common sense isn't very common, unfortunately. And it's, you know, taking something, taking the facts, the story that you've been presented, stepping back and just say, okay, just does it just make sense, like. Is it over complex? We love to make things way more complex than they need to be. And I encourage is you you have to speak truth to power or you have to be able to say your your say your say with conviction and take your space and not be afraid of the blowback or the criticism, because that's how we all learn together. And and then communications. Because if you can't tell a story in a way that everybody understands in the same way, right? You know, you in code, you speak and then somebody decode it often very differently. But if you can't get your message across, you can't make the change that you need. 

[00:33:24] Jade Towle: I thought that was such an insightful conversation between you and Pamela, Russell. 

[00:33:30] Russell Evans: So this brings our season two of Contributors to a close. Obviously, I want to thank you, our listener, for tuning in. I also want to thank all the amazing Canadian leaders that we had on the show in season two. Thank you for sharing your insights. Thank you for sharing your stories. Thank you for the work that you're doing to help make Canada better. As we look ahead to season three, I am so excited. There's so many more Canadian stories that we want to tell. There's so many more amazing Canadian employers that we want to spotlight. And yeah, I just, if anything, I want to know kind of. When are we getting started Jade? When do we start recording season three?

[00:34:12] Jade Towle: Soon as possible. We're lots of planning underway. And actually, if our listeners know of a leader in Canada who is committed to making meaningful change and really driving impact to to make their organization better and Canada better, then please reach out to us. We'll have a link in the show notes where you can connect with me directly and share your guest ideas. We hope to hear from you. 

[00:34:41] Russell Evans: See you in season three. 

[00:34:43] Jade Towle: See you then. 

[00:34:45] Russell Evans: Thank you for listening to Contributors, the podcast for Canadian leaders. We hope you'll take away some valuable insights and lessons from today's conversation. Help us reach even more listeners. Please subscribe, rate and review Contributors on Apple Podcasts. If you'd like to learn more about CAAT, visit us at caatpension.ca.