Russell Evans: [00:00:05] This is Contributors, a show exploring how today's Canadian business leaders are building a better future for Canada. 

Jade Towle: [00:00:12] We're back with another Contributor's episode. Welcome, everyone. 

Russell Evans: [00:00:16] We are back. And who are we speaking to today, Jade? 

Jade Towle: [00:00:19] I'm really excited for this episode. So we're speaking with Rola Dagher. She is the chief channel officer at Dell Technologies. She's also the former president of Cisco Systems Canada. 

Russell Evans: [00:00:32] I also understand that Rola is incredibly inspiring leader with a pretty incredible story. So I understand that she was married at 15. She had her first child at age 16 in a bomb shelter in Lebanon, came to Canada not knowing the language and really is a self-made woman. She started her career. She moved her way up through corporate Canada, eventually becoming president of Cisco Systems, Canada, and then within her current leadership role at Dell. So I can only imagine the amazing story [00:01:10]she'll be able to [0.5s] share on that journey. 

Jade Towle: [00:01:12] Absolutely. And I know she's known for having a servant leadership philosophy. And to your point, that was really instilled in her because of her early years escaping war. So I'm really excited to hear what she has to share with us. 

Russell Evans: [00:01:28] So am I. Let's get into it. Let's meet her. So Rola, welcome to Contributors. 

Rola Dagher: [00:01:41] Thank you for having me. It's awesome to be with you and be your guest today. 

Russell Evans: [00:01:45] Can you open by telling us a little bit about yourself in your own words? 

Rola Dagher: [00:01:50] My name is Rola Dagher, and I describe myself as the proudest Lebanese you'll ever meet, but the most grateful Canadian you'll also meet. My family immigrated to Canada, 34 years ago, and the saying started from the bottom up is an absolute true statement for me. I started working in retail, started at Bell for 15 years, and extremely passionate about the technology world and what technology has done to impact human progress and move from a Bell to Dell Technologies for five years, and went from an account executive to a director to a vice president in less than three years. And then yes, and Cisco Canada called me for the CEO role. It was awesome, learning tons and absolutely fell in love with what I do every single day, empowering people, inspiring people and getting out of their way to make a huge impact. And Dell Technologies called me back for the big role, which is the global channel chief. 

Russell Evans: [00:03:05] Wow. There's a lot there that I actually want to unpack. So you mentioned starting in retail. I'd love to go back there if we could. What was that first retail job in Canada and what did you learn from that? 

Rola Dagher: [00:03:18] That job shaped me to be who I am today. So I mentioned that I immigrated to Canada from Lebanon, and that is basically during the extreme times of where we left during the war. And I landed in Canada in 1990 without speaking a word of English. So my first job was my neighbor owned a retail store of bags and luggage. So that was my first job. And when I started, I remember she left me alone and customers were coming in. I didn't know what the currency was. I didn't know how how to actually interact with customers and speak the language. And I remember one woman got so angry at me and just threw the bag and walked out. And I basically taught myself the language, taught myself the culture, the environment. And after that retail job, I went to another retail job selling clothes for a living. And I started looking at the professional people that used to come to the store and I used to dress them up and they looked so good. And I'm like, I want to look like them one day and I want to have an office job like them one day. And sure enough, I did. 

Russell Evans: [00:04:41] And what was your first office job? What was your first transition from retail to office work and what was that like? 

Rola Dagher: [00:04:50] A telemarketer. I used to be the annoying person that called you over dinner to switch your line from Sprint to Bell Canada. And it was amazing because I was considered the top one back wrap in the inside call center because I literally switched every person that I spoke to over back to Bell Canada. 

Russell Evans: [00:05:13] Good for you. Good for you. How did you do it? 

Rola Dagher: [00:05:16] People want to buy from people. It's just building that trust. And it's is is connecting with people on a personal level and not sell them product. It was selling them solutions and helping them understand what's in it for them and what value they bring. And it's just by being me. 

Russell Evans: [00:05:34] It sounds like it's not that different from what you do today. 

Rola Dagher: [00:05:37] No, it's I always say being me has allowed me to be where I am today. But also Russell has allowed others feel comfortable being themselves around me. 

Russell Evans: [00:05:49] So speaking of that, tell us a little bit about what you do today at Dell. 

Rola Dagher: [00:05:53] So I'm the global channel chief at Dell Technologies responsible for all of our channel ecosystem, go to market strategy and the partners that transact through Dell. So that's my job to ensure that all of our partners have the right approach, the right strategy, the right programs, and ensure that they absolutely love working with Dell technology. 

Russell Evans: [00:06:20] When you think about Dell, you might think about kind of the early days in computing. And Dell's claim to fame that I remember is that in the early days, the Internet when a lot of people didn't have Internet, you could order a computer by calling like 1-800 the Dell line, and then they would customize a computer and they would send it to you. And Dell was really good at that. They were way ahead of their time in terms of the all in solution. How does that relate to the products and services that Dell offers today? 

Rola Dagher: [00:06:53] So Dell technology today holds the number one position critical client and infrastructure solution. And think about the days that you talked about the PC, now to the core data center, to the cloud, to the edge. And that is basically creating that deep customer insights and driving the innovation that has to deliver on everything one technology needs for all of our customers and partners. We also have a global leader from a services footprint perspective, and we have the best supply chain capabilities. And talk about when one COVID hit, our supply chain capability was just unmatched, enabling that's the cost position, speed, the supply security and sustainability. And we also have a leading financial services capability within our Dell Technologies family. And then we have an outstanding go to market and channel partner ecosystem, which is the business I lead. So that's Dell today versus the old days. 

Russell Evans: [00:08:10] So what do you see that makes Dell different than your competitors? 

Rola Dagher: [00:08:15] Our our unique approach to the market. So when you hold the number one position in so many categories, it provides the customers that trust and ability that you're going to come in to Dell and talk about a solution offering, not just the product. It's the Dell technology journey that we focus on that gives you that ability from end to end. Our people and culture is incredible as well. And when we look at when I mean, what I just mentioned to you is when you start with the product and the innovation, the services, and you wrap it around with financial services, because today more than ever, the world depends on the experience that you actually provide your customers and your partners. And we work extremely hard for the partner experience in return for customer experience, and that is when you gain a customer for life. 

Russell Evans: [00:09:19] I know I was looking this weekend at your online profile. But one of the things that we're seeing is that there really seems to be a focus in your career on relationship building. And it really seems like you're investing a lot of your personal capital in those relationships, more so than you might see at other similar firms. 

Rola Dagher: [00:09:45] I lead with my heart, soul and mind. Today, more than ever, people don't want to work for a leader that uses their title for power positions. Leadership is all that I care about and that is emotionally connected with the world. And the more you personalize your experience, the more you will connect with your customers and partners. I always lead with EQ more than ever today. Intelligence quotient is great and people used to hire for, you know, how many certifications you had Russell, but today, more than ever, your emotional connection and emotional quotient that is actually tied extremely close with your decency, caution with your adaptability, caution with your passion and purpose caution. That is what the world needs today. And if COVID hasn't taught the leaders that, I don't think anything will. So for me, I go when and I connect with them as a Rola first, then as a Dell leader, because that to me, what matters the most is how you make them feel. It's how you make them feel that the value that you're gonna bring to them as you've got their back no matter what. 

Russell Evans: [00:11:04] In preparing to have you on the show, you had a planning call with one of our producers and she was so impressed with you. One of the things that really piqued her interest was your passion for A.I. and ChatGPT is one of the things you talked about, and using technology for the greater good. So I'd love to talk a little bit about that and kind of what are your thoughts on how technology can improve our lives? 

Rola Dagher: [00:11:33] I love how you said using technology for good. As a technology leader, I've always been fascinated how technology has impacted the human progress for so many years, and especially the innovation that's coming out in the last couple years. The speed of how ChatGPT was actually taken place is incredible. It is faster than we've ever seen in any technology ever. So for me, it's all about how technology in ChatGPT specifically will improve our world to make it a better place, but it also requires responsible explorations. So ChatGPT could help you and educate you in ways that is so much faster. But also how do you ask ChatGPT the question and how do you refine the answers. And from a work perspective if we use it properly? Of course, that is ensuring that security, regulatory and security in risk control around it, which it will be by the time this is 100 percent fully ready, it's going to be a life changing. So now when we talk about education, imagine, Russell, you're helping your kid with their homework. So now you have a tutor for your care. But that is it's how do they use it properly and with supervision. Now, from a health care perspective, imagine you could ask a question where you don't need to call or go to you know a certain clinic to just ask a basic question. So to me, when I look at A.I. in terms of how we use it at Dell, we use it in an environment that is extremely monitored and our product and innovation team go out there and basically we provide our customers A.I. solution that's based on the expertise to unlock the power of the automation and intelligent decisions. 

Russell Evans: [00:13:44] Do you have any concerns about A.I.? You read so many concerns that it's going to come and it's going to take jobs or you know, even the sort of extreme concerns where people bring in, you know, references to Terminator II and Skynet and, you know, the machines taking over. Do you have any concerns about A.I.? 

Rola Dagher: [00:14:03] Like every single technology Russell, and every innovation that comes out, there's always concerns, right? For me, it's all about A.I. for good. But also, you know, the regulatory and the security is extremely important in any innovation in A.I. that comes out. And when it comes to A.I. replacing people's job. So I'll give you the reference. When the Internet first came out, everybody was so nervous that they were thinking, okay, how many jobs are going to be eliminated? Right. People were panicking, but look how many jobs the Internet actually created. 

Russell Evans: [00:14:46] Created yeah. 

Rola Dagher: [00:14:47] I don't believe it will replace jobs, but A.I. will replace people that don't know how to use A.I. for good. 

Russell Evans: [00:14:56] So I'm a huge Disney World aficionado. It's it's it's kind of my thing. There is an attraction in Epcot, in Disney World called Spaceship Earth, and effectively it is around how technology over time has improved the human experience. So one of the things that I was thinking about, as you were describing that was Spaceship Earth. And I was thinking, you know, 50 years from now, will they have to add a new portion of that attraction to talk about some of the advances in A.I. and I think they will. 

Rola Dagher: [00:15:29] You know, I've actually gone to Epcot and I've seen what you're talking about. I have to tell you, Russell, that I love how you positioned it, because it's I mean, look at the first, second, third, fourth industrial revolution and where we've been and where we are, where the fifth revolution, is in the sixth revolutions going to come. But at the end of the day, look at the progress of the first industrial revolution to now, and 20 years from now where things are going to be right. Think about your kids are actually dealing with robots because you're going to have, you know, how you have Generation Y and Z and the millennials. You're going to have a Generation R, which is that generation robots where most of the kids in the next 10, 15 years will be dealing with robots, and they're building those robots now with EQ. And then where a robot can actually cry now and feel connected with human because that was what was missing when they first started generating and building robots. 

Russell Evans: [00:16:37] That's actually one of the things I wanted to ask you about, is that kind of parallel between leveraging human emotions and emerging technology and kind of bringing those together, cause I think that is really that that's the next step, isn't it? 

Rola Dagher: [00:16:50] Absolutely. There was a podcast, I listened to it a year and a half ago, two years ago, and it talks about is is A.I. going to basically or technology going to eventually replace people period. And it is that will never happen. I mean that but it's how how humans are going to be able to have robots, our best friends and connect with them and how do they leverage the EQ connections. I think the last the the last ChatGPT A.I. test that I've seen that they were connecting with the robot and testing their emotion from a love connection. That was crazy. But that's how how advanced technology is becoming now. But to me, I think as humans, what we have is that heart, soul and mind and being passionate about what you do every day, that it'll be very, very hard to replace. 

Russell Evans: [00:17:58] Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. And I think on my team we've been experimenting with ChatGPT and we did like a little ChatGPT challenge, where everybody came up with the best sort of use cases for communications and marketing and then shared shared that with the team. So what's the input we use then? What's the output that was generated? And really, one of the kind of conclusions we came to is it's incredible technology, but it's only as good as your input. 

Rola Dagher: [00:18:31] Absolutely. 

Russell Evans: [00:18:31] So you still really have to generate the ideas. And if your ideas aren't great, like if you say, you know, I want you to write an article or write a song about X, Y, Z, and your song isn't good, your concept isn't good, it's not going to work, right? It's not going to fill in the blanks for you. So if you have an amazing idea, they can execute on that idea. But you if you have sort of a medium idea, the [00:18:58]openSTAT [0.0s] gonna be great. 

Rola Dagher: [00:19:00] Absolutely in the art is in the prompt and what you feed it. It's not just a question you ask and you wait. It's how do you make it more intelligent? How do you personalize it? How you make it refine it and just keep going and going? And that's what I said, that, you know, A.I. will replace people's jobs that are the ones that don't know how to use A.I. for good in using it for the greater good for their everyday impact. 

Russell Evans: [00:19:30] Absolutely. So how is Dell approaching A.I. right now? 

Rola Dagher: [00:19:35] We use them right now. We focus on we use A.I. to focus on our core innovation. Right? Number one, number two is to provide the customer with A.I. solution that is embedded with every technology that we put in front of them and how to help them automate and define basically the workload for them and create that path for the future. And then we also use it in our product on our PCs for examples, we have the AI two on our laptop to manage battery life in our client devices, to use it for to manage the application in our precision workstations using email and to use it in our storage system where it allows us to exceed the capabilities of the hardware and the software of making it, making the system a lot smarter. And also we use it in most cases where in the past they were things that humans had to manage. So you just take that away from the men, just automate all that process. 

Russell Evans: [00:20:49] We are in the middle of, you know, some people call it the war for talent. I think at CAAT, we like to call it the marathon for talent, because I don't think it's temporary. I think that this is something that we're we're really in for the long haul now in terms of keeping and recruiting the best possible people. I think nowhere, nowhere else has this been felt as acutely as the tech sector. So definitely wanted to ask you about that. And how are how are you and the other Dell leaders striving to win that without marathon for talent? 

Rola Dagher: [00:21:23] So I'm going to take you back to the statement I made earlier, Russell, is that servant leadership more than ever is is needed in every company. You know, it's easy to attract people based on the brand, but it's very hard to retain a person and an employee based on the leader. Because people don't leave companies. People leave people and people leave leaders because it's how that leader has handled that or treated them. And to me, leadership is all, it's not about how many people follow you, Russell. It's how many people you develop. I always used learn it, earn it and return it. I mentioned to you how I came to this country and where I am today because I learned everything and I knew that learning was the fuel of my success. I earned it because I knew nothing is given. Everything is earned the hard way. But you have to earn people's respect. You have to earn the position you're in and you have to earn the ability to be was someone that can help you and mentor you. And then as leaders today, shame on us if we don't return it back and lift other people up. And for me, my leadership right now in the phase that I'm in is all about returning it back to our people, our community and the environment. It starts with people and it ends with people. So to me at Dell, I preach that every day, and you'll find it exactly around the leadership, around Dell, everywhere that people and culture is the number one priority. 

Russell Evans: [00:23:16] For our listeners who might not know, how would you define servant leadership? What does that mean to you? 

Rola Dagher: [00:23:22] You know, I always refer to servant leadership as like being a parent. How old are your kids, Russell? 

Russell Evans: [00:23:28] Seven and nine. 

Rola Dagher: [00:23:29] Seven and nine. And as a father, how much do you protect those kids and every day you wake up thinking, what do I need to do for those kids? How do I protect them? How do I educate them? And how do I provide a better future for them, correct? 

Russell Evans: [00:23:44] Yeah, absolutely. It's top priority. 

Rola Dagher: [00:23:46] That, to me, is a servant leadership. As a parent, you have the responsibility to basically do everything that I just mentioned. And as a leader, that's exactly what you need is while you protect your team, you develop them. You you literally clear the path for them and allow them to go out there and make a huge impact. 

Russell Evans: [00:24:08] I'm hearing for you. Servant leadership is about really viewing your role as unleashing the potential of your team. So it's not about you, it's not about your skills, it's not about your impact, but it's about prioritizing the skills and development and impact of those that are on your team. 

Rola Dagher: [00:24:32] Absolutely. 

Russell Evans: [00:24:34] So this show is called Contributors. How do you see that Dell is contributing to a better future for Canada? 

Rola Dagher: [00:24:44] So Dell Canada has done a lot of work around social impact in Canada. If I were to touch on the two things that are near and dear to my heart, young girls that are struggling to find what their future is going to look like because to me, every little kid deserves an opportunity to be the best they can and to to basically make a huge impact. So we've got a program called Girls Who Game that started in Canada, and we rolled that out in the U.S. and that is, you know, it's hard to see where women still only make up 28 percent of the overall workforce, but we could change. So at Dell, we're helping usher in change through Girls Who Game by building and helping their skills in programs in the underserved communities. And those students that could learn about STEM through the Minecraft and that is providing schools with the opportunity to really improve the digital literacy, the digital divide that we have in Canada. And the goal is to teach them how to communicate, how to collaborate, and how to think critically in terms of solving problems. And I had the opportunity of doing a panel with those three girls, and they're incredible. So I asked them a question, do boys worry when you're playing? And they're like, Yup, because we beat them every time. Go for it. That was awesome. Yeah. And then we have a program called Soar With Mentor and also started in Canada and we rolled that out in the U.S. in that is basically a program to develop post-secondary students, to inspire them, educate them and equip them with the knowledge and the skills that they need to succeed in life. It's all around supporting diversity and inclusion and just improve that STEM. And it's really sad to see, Russell that how many girls are dropping out in our STEM numbers keeps declining. So and we do that through mentorship, create a female centric ecosystem to increase the confidence and the STEM and business related field. So those are the two that I really, really enjoy working and helping with. 

Russell Evans: [00:27:25] That's wonderful. One of the things that we like to ask in Contributors is this sort of this question, what's the secret behind your success? What is what is it that makes them so exceptional? So in your case, what I'd heard was about your EQ, about your compassion, about your mentorship. But the other interesting thing that that popped up is this idea of role of the terminator. So I wanted to ask you about that dichotomy. This like there's there seems to be two sides to your leadership style. And I wanted to I wanted to hear from you about both of them and how they intersect. 

Rola Dagher: [00:28:12] So I think early in my career that last statement you said existed because I had no choice. I had to make myself from nothing and just go out there. And I always I, I always had this thing in my head. You must 100 percent of the shots you don't take. I loved that saying. And I basically went out there and took every shot because not a lot of people in your career that you meet well take chances on you, but I was so blessed to meet someone that took a chance on me and unleashed me and said, You can go and be this, this and that. And was was something that I actually was grateful for. So I always say it's like the software upgrade on your cell phone. And so I went from Rola one dotted to two dotted, three dotted and I keep going and going. 

Russell Evans: [00:29:13] I love it.

Rola Dagher: [00:29:14] Going. And at the same time with your phone, when you're at capacity in full storage, you either have to delete or you have to buy more storage. So I will tell you this as in life for me, I continue to enhance my software upgrade by re-finding the Rola that used to be to the Rola that I need to be, because if it worked for me the past 25 years doesn't mean it's going to work for me moving forward. And I tend to do I can, I tend to do on an on a regular basis a lot of upload and download and clear, you know, and make room for storage in that storage is deleting the negativity and uploading more positivity in life. And yeah, people will tell you that I'm extremely passionate but I'm, I graduated with a degree that's called GSD which is get shit done. So that's something that I'm proud of because if you hired me for a reason and that reason is to make a difference and I tend to make the best out of that reason and make a positive and lasting impact. 

Russell Evans: [00:30:31] That's great. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to be here with us in Contributors today. It was an absolute pleasure getting to know you. 

Rola Dagher: [00:30:39] Thank you, Russell. It was a lot of fun. And if you ever need any advice on A.I. and how to use it with your kids, give me a call. 

Russell Evans: [00:30:47] We'll do. 

Jade Towle: [00:30:53] So, Russell, that was a really great conversation with Rola. No surprise there she is amazing. Such an authentic, genuine leader. How did you feel about the episode? 

Russell Evans: [00:31:06] I loved it. I think one of the things that really came through for me was her authenticity. She is really comfortable in her own skin and I think leans in on that authenticity as a leader. I think that's part of what she talked about in terms of helping her build relationships with key Dell clients. But also I think that's a really big part of her approach as a leader with her teams is being herself and encouraging her people to do the same, to really bring their full selves to work. 

Jade Towle: [00:31:42] I love how she actually compared herself with a phone getting a software update, so she's constantly refining her skills, you know, investing in herself to do that. And I think that plays a huge role in the level of leadership and mentorship she's been able to provide. If we're looking at technology, there is a big theme there around using technology for good. What is you take out of that? 

Russell Evans: [00:32:12] Yeah, I think it's interesting. She's so passionate about technology and she's so passionate about kind of the optimistic read of that and that technology can come in and help us support ongoing human progress. And there's a really interesting kind of yin and yang there, which is Rola is passionate about technology, and it's obviously something that she's really interested in. And yet in her personal philosophy, in her business philosophy, it's so much about a humanistic approach, right? And it really go and comes down to what she talked about in terms of maximizing the value is technology like ChatGPT, for example, it's only as good as your use of it. So you need to lean in on the things that make you human. You know, your individual identity, your creativity, and only insofar as you're able to really lean in on that can you unlock the potential of technology, because technology is only as good as the user behind it. 

Jade Towle: [00:33:22] Definitely. And for any leaders listening, if your people are nervous around A.I. and the powers that be, I think a great, great thing to share with them is that the art of A.I., as you say, Russell, is in the prompts that you feed it. So that human element is always necessary and will be as we further evolve. 

Russell Evans: [00:33:46] I also love what she had to say about the Internet because it's it feels like a really long time now. But it wasn't that long ago that at the dawn of the Internet we were talking about, Oh my God, everyone's going to lose their job. We're all going to be replaced by computers. And that's not what happened. Instead, the Internet created millions of new jobs that we had never anticipated. So, to Rola's point, we should have every expectation that that's going to happen again, that the jobs of the future are not going to be the jobs of today. But it is most likely there are going to be more and more jobs created around the effective use of this technology. And there's something really exciting about that. 

Jade Towle: [00:34:30] And I'm excited to see what other innovations evolve because of it. 

Russell Evans: [00:34:35] Absolutely. We should we should get back on ChatGPT to make sure that we're not falling behind. 

Jade Towle: [00:34:40] We should. We should. We'll need to ask, what's the key takeaways from this episode? Those are my show notes for our listeners. 

Russell Evans: [00:34:51] All right. Well, thanks so much for listening and I hope you join us again soon. 

Jade Towle: [00:34:56] See you next time. 

Russell Evans: [00:34:59] Thank you for listening to Contributors. The podcast for Canadian Leaders. We hope you'll take away some valuable insights and lessons from today's conversation. To help us reach even more listeners, please subscribe, rate and review Contributors on Apple Podcasts. If you'd like to learn more about CAAT, visit us at caatpension.ca.